Interview with Heather: A Feminist Who Dates Men

I have with me a 23-year-old radical feminist we will call Heather. Heather, please introduce yourself.

Hi, I’m a PhD student focusing on prostitution and the exploitation of women in the tourism industry. I discovered radical feminism almost 4 years ago now. My radical feminism is also informed from my experience travelling to every continent and growing up in the Middle East.

On the topic of this interview — I have dated men my whole life, some women here and there, but for the most part I am straight.

Can you talk about your experiences dating men as a feminist?

Hmm where to start!!! I was celibate for a while when I first gained feminist consciousness, I was dealing with past traumas and coming to terms with all this new knowledge. But I realized I was stopping myself from living a lot of life.

It was very overwhelming at first, letting a man back into my life, because I was different. I let my body hair grow out and I wore men’s boxers, but most importantly — I wasn’t a passive little girl anymore.

The first man I decided to let in blocked me after our first date when I came in the defense of JK Rowling. The next was a sweetheart, he didn’t watch porn, he treated me with kindness and was gentle in every way. But I moved away and things didn’t work out.

After that I fell back into the toxic loop of hookup culture. But, again, I was different. And I realized that one on one, skin to skin, men don’t care if I have hair on my legs, these insecurities I held were fed to me from the media and larger structures. I treated hookups like sociological experiments. I’d study men and ask them uncomfortable questions. “Do you watch pornography?” I’d ask, if they said yes I’d say, “that’s fucking disgusting” and walk away. Radical feminism gave me that power.

I fell for a man in the midst of all this. He was a misogynist and a porn addict. I made myself clear, if he wanted to be with me he would have to change his attitude and quit his addiction. He did, sure, but his disrespect lingered and I eventually walked away.

So overall, dating as a feminist (especially a radfem) is really hard, I have very high expectations of men because I know that a lot of their actions are due to social conditioning but i dont want to be their mommy or their teachers and have to explain basic respect for women to them. So I toe a fine line I guess.

I would agree that you seem more cautious of men than the average woman, but some of what you described, I guess I would say there were opportunities for you to weed out these men more before giving them a chance. For instance, with the first man, I don’t think women should even go on a first date with a man until they know basically everything about him they want to know. I know that probably sounds like a paradox, but in this day and age where we can run background checks on men, scour their social media accounts, and just ask them basic questions over the phone without even meeting them in person, I think it’s totally possible to get all of those anxieties somewhat alleviated before even meeting in person one on one. I think there are too many women who go on first dates and then come back saying that they found out the dude had a kid or is anti-abortion. In my head, I’m thinking you should’ve asked questions before you even went on a date in person with him.

I think women should keep a list of questions they want answered about a man they’re attracted to and try to get the answers to those questions. I’m not saying they should directly ask all the questions to the man, because men will lie and say whatever you wanna hear, but there are ways to get answers without directly asking. For instance, just say, what kind of porn do you watch, as opposed to do you watch porn. Or pretend to be anti-abortion and see how he reacts.

I think that’s a good idea, but it gets exhausting too, having to background check every one. I think it also depends on my intention going into meeting a guy, whether I’m looking for a hookup or a relationship. But, it’s usually just a hookup because I know that the happiest people are single women and married men! So I’m not really looking to settle down with a man, although all my friends and family think I will. And I’m a very sexual person so sometimes my intentions are simply to spend a night with a man and never call him again, but I know many (if not the majority) of women don’t want or enjoy that. I know, even just comparing myself to my female friends, that I’m less emotionally involved with men.

But definitely, when I start to see a future with a man, I ask the hard questions, I impose my boundaries, I check him… but if any women listening can take one piece of (kind of obvious) advice — do NOT get romantically involved with a man who at any point has actively listened to Andrew Tate. It’s actual poison and the beliefs will linger in him.

I guess for a hook up, I would argue that there’s still a lot of due diligence that should occur. As we both know, so many women have been killed during sex. It’s so common we have the rough sex defense. Having sex with men is the most vulnerable state a woman can be in. So I think if you’re gonna jump to having sex, where both of you naked, in a private room, alone, you have to assess if the man is prone to violence at the very least so you can feel safe in his presence.

And if you’re gonna have sex, you have to have some level of trust. You need to know that he isn’t going to stealth you, he isn’t going to secretly take off the condom you give him. You have to trust that he didn’t poke holes in his condom. You have to trust that if you become pregnant as a result of sex, he isn’t going to cause a ruckus because you get an abortion. You have to trust that he was honest with you about STD status. I don’t think any woman should even take a man at his word when it comes to his sexual health. I saw a woman online say that her boyfriend photoshopped fake sexual health reports and ended up knowingly exposing her to his STD.

You also have to hope the man won’t blab to the world about you. Men love to tell other men that they fucked another woman. You’re a really accomplished woman and have done amazing feminist work. I think that it is really likely that a man you have sex with might relish what he sees was a conquest of a feminist and tell everyone he knows that he had sex with you in an attempt to humiliate and undermine you.

I think you make great points and points that non-radfem women also consider. But to me, going down a rabbit hole of fear isn’t helpful. It’s like telling myself I can’t leave the house past sundown, I can’t park my car in a parking lot, I can’t take the subway, I can’t I can’t … obviously sex is different. What I do is I text a man first, sus out his vibe, send him to my friends. If they tell me to block him, he’s blocked, if not then I see where it goes. I think everything in life is a risk, I smoke cigarettes and risk cancer but I eat all organic foods because I’m scared of pesticides. We all have contradictions in our lives. We all have fears that follow us every day. Obviously safety is such a concern, I get tested when I’m having sex and I know I can never trust a man (whether he’s a hookup, my boyfriend, or my husband).

This is definitely the aspect about being with men I wrestle with the most. And it does make me uncomfortable, the idea of being an object to be conquered, but again, it’s something I’ve accepted to deal with.

And on the sex itself — I orgasm almost every time, which I know is rare. I’ve mostly (about 90%) only been with men that ensure I orgasm before penetration and make me cum further through penetration. I’ve had good and enjoyable sex ever since I’ve started being more assertive and prioritizing myself in sex and not just appealing to the male gaze and his pleasure.

I really appreciate your honesty. I can understand that you’re OK with a level of risk with men. It seems like you really enjoy having romantic and sexual feelings and don’t wanna give that up, despite realizing how dangerous men are. So if you had sex with a man then found him on social media saying something like women should lose the right to vote, would that weigh on you and make you angry that you ever gave him a chance, or would you just shrug your shoulders and think oh well?

Sex is like a reward to men. I don’t want to reward men. Like what if the man you have sex with is a father of 2 cheating on his wife? Like I’d be pissed! I think stuff like that would literally keep me up at night.

Haha I think the worst that’s happened to me is a guy posted a MAGA post after I slept with him. I just went “ugh gross” unfollowed him and moved on with my life (literally hadn’t thought about it until right now). But yeah I definitely think I’ve been lucky in my experiences. And if I found out a man had a wife or anything I’d find her and tell her! But thankfully none of that has happened.

Let’s go back to the man you said you dated who was a misogynist. At this point it sounds like you wouldn’t give a guy like that a chance again even if he promised to change, is that right?

Depends what the change is regarding. My ideal man doesn’t watch porn, he doesn’t drink alcohol, he agrees with my beliefs, and more. But I don’t think that man exists. There are core things, like genuine respect to me and all women, that I don’t believe a man can just “change” and learn like that, so that I wouldn’t give him a chance. But if he’s watched porn in the past (who hasn’t) but doesn’t anymore and recognizes its harms, I’m okay with that. If he drinks alcohol but it’s sparse drinking and is willing to give it up, I’m okay with that. It depends on the change you know.

Can you talk about the last long-term relationship you had with a man and your openness to a long-term relationship now?

My last long term was with him (misogynistic porn addict). He broke my heart in many ways, like true earth-shattering heartbreak. I still hold so much love for him, and that love somehow bypasses theory and everything I know. It’s such a scary and overwhelming emotion because it makes me irrational. But I’m glad I had the strength to walk away from him. Now, I’m not looking for a relationship, but I’m not against it either. I’m also not looking for hookups. I’m focused on my life, and that’s something celibacy taught me — how to live without constant male validation. If something comes into my life I’m not closed off to it, but I’m at a point where I’m not actively looking for anything either.

See that is really infuriating, to really love someone who hates your sex class. I think all men harbor some level of hate towards women as a whole, so dating them is such a risk. Do you regret any of your relationships?

Gosh, I don’t like living with regrets. Do I regret getting too drunk at 12 and getting sexually assaulted in a bathtub by a boy who said he loves me? Of course. Do I regret giving my all to a man who never loved me, only the idea of me? Sure. But each and every experience has made me into the woman I am today, into the unapologetically radical feminist I am. My individual experiences are political and drive me to do the work I do.

I’m so sorry you were abused.

Now I have a post entitled “Still Dating Males? At Least Say No to PIV and BJs” where I detail my views on penetrative sex. I cannot find it as an act itself pleasurable or divorce it from misogyny. We have privately talked about this issue before one on one, and I understand you find PIV (Penis-In-Vagina) pleasurable. I guess I would just ask your opinion on the feminist critique of PIV in general. Do you think there’s merit there? Do you think the act of penis in vagina sex self is an issue, or it’s only an issue if the penis is attached to an overt misogynist?

Theoretically I agree, I mean I do believe that all penetrative hetero sex is “rape” under patriarchy because men have power over women which classifies it as rape, at least in my definition of it. So the act of PIV will always be an “issue” as long as we live under patriarchy. So no it doesn’t matter who the P is attached to. But on a personal level, of course I’d rather not fuck an overt woman hater.

I do my work and my part in fighting male domination with the resources available to me and on a macro scale.

As you say, yes I very much enjoy PIV (with the right P of course). But I know a majority of women don’t, or at least don’t orgasm from it. I think the way of navigating that is ensuring you’re pleasured in other ways, getting fingered or orally.

Now, blowjobs. It depends on the person. I’ve given some men head who clearly just see me as a fuck object and stopped right away. For me, giving head is a tease, a pleasure, a fun thing. But when a man begins to throat fuck me, that pleasure goes away. I don’t give men I don’t know head. I only do it when I’ve had sex with them at least once and I know their vibe. But I totally understand why a lot of women are against it or wouldn’t want to do it. It’s not particularly enjoyable. I’ve found it to be best when you’re in a very comfortable sexual relationship with someone and you can have fun with it.

I’m very curious how your hook ups take place. Like do you go to their house, do they go to your house, do you demand that they pay for a hotel room? I would be really worried about the safety aspect of them knowing where I live or going to their house and worrying, they might have hidden cameras or refuse to let me leave.

I almost always have them come to me. Whether it’s my place or a hotel. I lived in a very secure building before with 24/7 doorman and security guards. Like we talked about, there’s always risks, but I know sometimes I’ve taken one too many risks for a one night stand. I recently went to a guy’s place I met at a bar, something I have never done before, but I was sharing a hotel room with my friends so it was the only available place. He ordered my Uber to his.

I know you mention a lot of fear, and it’s so justified. But honestly, the majority of men are so pathetic. They’re gaming all day and have other shit to worry about. They’re all a little broken, and as a radfem it’s so easy to spiral into this man-hating fury, but in reality a lot of them are lost (none of this excuses misogyny). But like I said, I treat all my interactions with men as an ethnography, I study them and their words and actions. I’m a researcher at the end of the day hahahah.

But back to your question. I like to be in control. I live in a new place now, just moved 3 days ago, and I am afraid of letting the wrong man in, especially since this will be my home for the next 5 years. So for now I’m not hooking up.

And on my control comment — I have a lot of privilege and come from a well-off family. And with money comes a lot of safety. I know that my building is safe, my car is safe, the hotels my father books for me are safe… so I have a lot of security in that. Also, if I’m stranded, I can always call myself a car, no matter the cost. I can book myself a last-minute hotel room… but I know the majority of women do not have this privilege.

I suppose I hang onto the control money gives me because of the lack of control I have in hetero relations. It allows me to feel like I have the upper hand. It’s MY place, or MY car, or MY hotel room. Does that make sense?

I see, yes. I still think you’re in a very vulnerable position with any of those males, like to be morbid and graphic for a second, all guy has to do to kill a woman is exert some physical force. Maybe it’s lulling you into a blowjob, then plugging your nose and shoving your head closer to his body. Or strangulation during sex. Or putting a pillow over your head and not letting up. Or using a gun.

What is the reaction when you tell men about your radical feminist beliefs?

Depends on the man. The educated ones will listen, try to push back with some faux Marxist comment, and I squash them.

The conservatives agree with a majority of what I say.

And then some will push back only because they feel as if I’m attacking them on a personal level.

But I like to believe I get them to think. I’ve had some reach out and ask me for book recommendations, some have read my work, some will listen to a podcast I send them. I think it’s important for radfem to be read by men as well.

In my research, I focus a lot on supply and demand of prostitution and the main argument of radfems is that we must target and diminish the demand (hence male buyers). We do so by yes criminalizing the purchase of sex, but also by educating and spreading awareness to men. I like to believe I do my small part in it.

I also HATE echo chambers. I read Judith Butler and I watch Fox News. It makes my skin crawl, but it makes me smarter and more aware. It allows me to defend my POV and arguments more sharply.

I call myself a 4B RadFem because it most aligns with my points of view but ultimately, I have my own thoughts and solutions which are not in any radical feminist text, just from my own mind. I think mass incarceration of male sex buyers, really we should call them woman and girl buyers, would be great. I want the Nordic model. I don’t think dissuading men from misogyny is an effective use of time. Supporting women and girls who are at risk of being prostituted is really important. There is a lot of radical feminist content already out there for men to learn from, but they also live in the real world. I guess I really hate the whole, men need to be educated idea, because they know everything feminists say is right already through their own lived experiences. I found that usually the issue is not men being ignorant to feminism or misunderstanding feminism, it’s that they want us to just shut the fuck up and accept being wives or whores.

There is always discourse in radical feminist spaces about radical feminists with male partners. I personally don’t care who calls themselves a feminist, like we all have our own ideas of what female liberation is and it’s a waste of time in my opinion to say someone is or is not a feminist. I think Germaine Greer has argued for some misogynistic anti feminist things but I think it’s crazy for me to say she is not a feminist because of it. I mean she explicitly calls herself a feminist and she has done a lot of work for women’s liberation that has been branded a feminist by the public. I personally care more about looking at specific practices and calling them feminist versus anti-feminist. Germaine Greer saying that rape should not be a crime? I would say that’s anti-feminist. But I still acknowledge she’s historically a feminist. I think Emma Watson is shit representation for feminists, but globally she is recognized as a feminist and calls herself one. That’s my take.

How do you feel about fellow feminists saying that you have no right to call yourself a feminist when you have not closed the door on pursuing or being pursued by men sexually or romantically?

Like you say, I think it’s ridiculous. I don’t care who calls themselves a feminist. If you don’t see me as a feminist, whatever. I’m not doing the work I do for clout or for a label. I do it because I truly care for women, because I’ve seen exploitation firsthand. I’ve seen violence and I’ve seen abuse. I’ve studied it and I’m turning it into a career because I could not sleep at night if I just went on and lived my life and chose a more prosperous career while women and girls get exploited every day.

Some people would say I’m not a feminist because I sleep with men, but libfems say I’m not a feminist because I don’t consider Trans Identified Males (TIMs) women. Everyone’s gonna have their own opinions.

I also see that when I approach more global and international issues within feminism, there’s such nuanced understandings of feminism around the world that I can’t sit here and label someone a feminist or not. At the end of the day it’s about the work you put in for our collective liberation. Like personally, do I consider Bonnie Blue the feminist icon she claims she is? Absolutely not. I think what she does is extremely harmful to all women. But I don’t have the authority (or the time) to sit here and argue with her or anyone about what labels she decides to assign herself.

Yeah, I would rather we focus on practices or actions than individuals. I mean, we see this in leftist circles too. Progressives will get stingy with the progressive label and say you can’t call yourself a progressive unless you’re aligned on a litany of issues with them. Republicans do it too. I mean, they have that Republican In Name Only (RINO) label they throw at Republicans they don’t like who are critical of Trump.

What do you think about the 4B movement, which advocates for women en masse to stop dating men, stop marrying men, stop having sex with men, and stop creating children?

I think it’s good in theory, but not in practice. I truly don’t believe the majority of women will give up men or having children. It’s a great practice to implement as a way to decenter men. It allows young women to envision a life alone in which they are still happy and fulfilled (at least that’s what it did for me). But at the end of the day, don’t we all crave love? Touch? I think it takes a lot of strength to completely be celibate (I did it 3+ years, I know) and sometimes women give into sex/romance, and I don’t think they should be demonized for it.

So yes, practicing 4B can be very admirable. But it can also be lonely and isolating. And it’s not the way I wanted to live my life anymore. But at the end of the day it comes down to personal preference, choosing your poison if you will.

I read a great book called Escape Intimacy which jump started my celibacy journey. Written in the 80s by a psychologist. And it helped me realize a lot of my sexual and romantic desires were culturally created addictions. I think celibacy/4B allowed me to detach from that and I’m very grateful for that.

You seem focused on the romantic and sexual aspect, how do you feel about the no creating children aspect?

Hmm I’ve always been drawn to the idea of being pregnant which I know is weird. I never particularly wanted to raise kids but the experience of carrying a child has always been a dream. In my feminist journey I have read so much on motherhood, on childbirth, on the way men have taken such a beautiful thing and put their dirty hands all over it (literally in the medicalization of pregnancy).

I kind of see carrying children as a very feminist act, this thing the female sex can do that males can’t. I find the creation of life so beautiful. But as I said, I see my future alone — sans a man or children. I want to focus on myself and my career and helping women.

On a societal level, again, I don’t think women will give up motherhood on a mass scale.

I am antinatalist and find creating children antifeminist. Something a lot of radical feminists really hate about me lol. I think the 4B movement is amazing for every single woman to follow. I think the principles of 4B are so fundamental to living a decent life as a woman as free as you can be from male supremacy and female subordination.

So you’re 23 years old, can I ask since what age have you been sexually active?

I started having sex when I was 15, with my high school boyfriend and first love.

Do you feel like you need to experience romance or sexual feelings to have a fulfilled life?

No definitely not. I think I’m primarily fulfilled in my female friendships and my academics/career. But I do find that having this openness to romance and sex makes me more open in general to the world. Everyone is different obviously, but when I shut myself off from men, I shut myself off from the world. I didn’t even know how to be friends with women because in the back of my mind there was a constant voice screaming “you’re dating a man! he’s going to kill you and rape you and beat you!”. My female bonds have thrived since I began dating/sleeping with men again, which is in a way sad to admit. But even if I’m not talking about men or not actively sleeping with men, I find myself being a lot less judgmental of my women friends.

So although the actual romance and sex with men isn’t what fulfills me, my openness to it allows me to thrive in other aspects of my life (even being able to take a male professor’s class).

It sounds like maybe your female bonds got better not really because you let men into your life, but you relate to them more, maybe because you’re both going through similar feelings for men?

Sure, in some ways of course. But I stopped judging them too. And that voice in my head went away. They’d complain about being tired and I wouldn’t say “it’s that man tiring you out” instead I’d show more empathy and patience.

Do you feel a disconnect between yourself and women who are very pro 4B or pro separatism?

No because I think we are all rooted in the same theory, and have the same mission. I don’t believe that personal choices affect politics, hence why I’m going down this career path. I want to make real policy change at the macro level. Also because I don’t disagree with 4B and I have an understanding of it, it stops the disconnect in some ways.

What is a good boyfriend in your eyes?

Does that exist? I mean I see my brothers or my friends’ boyfriends, all are “good” partners, but God I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with any of them. They’re either too pretentious, their ego is too high, or they’re not generous enough.

But to answer your question in a broad way, a good boyfriend respects me and all women. A good boyfriend truly listens to me, he considers my emotions and my thoughts. He understands my boundaries. He praises me and admires me. He is giving, to me and to society.

I’ve only ever met one man in my life that I genuinely considered to be a good and kind hearted man. He was a professor of mine, married with children. He listened to me endlessly yap about Dworkin, not in a patronizing way but in a way that showed he really cared, he was interested. I listened to him talk about Edward Said in return. We exchanged books and ideas. He’s the only man I’ve ever spoken to that I’ve thought “that, that is a good man, and a good husband”. Perhaps I also didn’t know him intimately enough. I would have found his faults eventually. But when he met my father he depicted his misogyny right away. He challenged it. And that was the sexiest thing I’ve ever seen a man do.

A man turning a woman into a mother proves he’s not a good man.

I think I have given up on men more than you have and that seems to be at the crux of this. If there’s still some hope out there for a decent man or at least a decent experience out of interacting with a man, there will always be the possibility of a relationship with a man which leads to being harmed by them in some way.

Has anyone ever called you a hypocrite or claimed you were contradictory? How do you respond as a feminist?

No I’ve never been called a hypocrite for being with a man. Only people who’ve called me that are Trans-Identified Female (TIF) or TIM “feminists” who tell me that if I don’t support transwomen I’m a misogynist.

But if a radfem were to say that to me, I would not try to fight her. She may have her own opinions and that’s fine and I can respect that. I would just simply state that I’m committing my life to women’s liberation to ending prostitution to shedding light to the sexual exploitation of women within the tourism industry, and honestly that’s a lot more than what modern radfems are doing.

I’m sure you’ve heard the radical feminist slogan the personal is political. Do you feel like you live up to that?

The personal is political, but it is not politics. I strongly believe that. I do think that all of our individual experiences are influenced by larger political systems, but I don’t think that individual choices will make a macro level difference in society. It’s what I’m trying to express. I think that as a radical feminist, I can fight for women’s liberation, but my day-to-day actions do not have an impact on the broader political climate. I think that as feminists, we often find ourselves so conflicted with our day-to-day actions that we forget the larger movement.

So when I stopped hyper obsessing over my everyday choices of wearing makeup, or speaking to men, or even removing my body hair, I was able to exert my time and energy instead in things that I believe will have greater influence for women around the world.

One woman stopping does matter a lot to me. When a woman chooses not to shave her legs or armpits, not to wear makeup, not to dye her hair, not to get laser hair removal or cosmetic procedures, she’s rejecting an entire system that profits off women being less than human. The average woman spends like tens of thousands of dollars in her lifetime on beauty. That’s money going straight into industries that sell insecurity. When even one woman says no, that’s one less woman funding that machine.

It also matters because other women see her. Girls in her life see her. When a woman shows up with body hair or a bare face or aging skin, it reminds people that women are human. That we’re mammals. That we’re not some inferior version of men.

And it’s a kind of litmus test. If I go outside, I perhaps can’t tell which women would be anti women being objectified, but if I look around and see a woman literally not objectifying herself, I know we might have a base commonality. Women keep talking about how hard it is to refuse beauty, but assume it’s easy for feminists like me. If feminists want to support women like me who never remove their body hair or wear makeup, I would appreciate them also refusing to do those things and going out in the real world. That would be real solidarity. That would make women and girls feel less disgusting or alienated in their natural bodies.

When one woman really does live up to anti objectification, she makes the resistance visible.

People always say every vote counts, especially in national elections in the US. If we don’t listen to people who say “it’s just one vote,” then why should we dismiss one woman who stops shaving or wearing makeup? One woman choosing not to spend money or time on beauty industries is a big deal. It does make a difference. Voting happens once in a while. Refusing beauty standards is a daily, lifetime choice. That matters just as much, if not more.

The idea of a little girl seeing a woman with smooth leg hair at age 30 and then that girl being 11 years old feeling weird or alien for having leg hair is something that should haunt every woman who removes her body hair.

It sounds like you’re not really looking to change things like your beauty routines or how you engage with men romantically or sexually. I get that you’re choosing to focus more on yourself but I know you are still open to male partners in your life. Do you feel confident and comfortable with these choices? It feels like you are, I just wanna confirm that’s fair to say.

I agree with everything you’re saying by the way. I just think it takes more bravery and strength than I have to defy every beauty standard and go against patriarchy.

Yeah I’m confident and comfortable with my choices. I make them all with awareness. Literature and theory guide me. I also don’t make men a priority in my life. I think I’ve learned how to balance certain things in a way that makes me enjoy my life while still holding onto my beliefs (for example wearing lipstick but growing out all my body hair or stopping getting permanent straightening done to my hair).

Is there anything you want to share that you haven’t been able to say yet?

I think I’d want to tell any baby radfems out there that it’s okay if you’re not ready to give up every beauty ritual or cut off every man from your life. There’s other ways for us to express our feminism and fit into feminist spaces. I think we are all on a journey through this life and you don’t need to fit a certain mold in order for your advocacy to be valid. The importance is in how you politically organize, spreading the radfem message, and holding strongly to your beliefs, ethics, and moral compass.

Yes, I would say it’s always good to challenge yourself and your personal life and scrutinize your personal choices, but I do think simply having the knowledge is so powerful. And spreading the knowledge is really important. Do you have any stories to share about maybe influencing a woman or a girl to embody or promote principles than lean more in a radical feminist direction? I’m sure with your work it’s come up.

It’s definitely happened with my friends. No one, not even me, had seen their body hair. But after a couple years of seeing mine, of me showing my bush proudly, they began to feel more at ease letting me see their stubble then full hair. It’s a small step for them but I know one who then went on to go see her boyfriend with all her body hair and still be able to feel sexy. Then I think in general I’ve gotten so many people to think more critically about prostitution and the illusion of choice. And I’ve also given a space for women to vent about their confusions around the trans debate and have definitely piqued a few.

Who are some women you look up to?

Gail Dines, Kajsa Ekis Ekman, Andrea Dworkin, Germaine Greer, Nawal El Saadawi…

All the strong women who turned their words into weapons and whose legacy I’ve sworn to keep alive.

When you look up to a feminist and find out that she has engaged in anti-feminist behavior or has promoted anti-feminist views, how does that affect you and your perception of her?

I touched on Germaine Greer earlier espousing just horrible anti-feminist views but I still respect her feminist work and how she speaks up against males in women’s spaces. I don’t really see these women as unimpeachable sweeties, I mean they are humans and they don’t have my brain so of course I will find faults with them. That’s how I look at it.

I completely agree. I mean no matter how much I idealized Dworkin, she had her faults too. These women aren’t goddesses, they’re real humans, their work is impactful and of course they will have their faults. Dines is married to a man, speaks highly of her male child. Ekis Ekman wears makeup and bodycon dresses, but that doesn’t diminish her transformative writings. To me, these “faults” humanize my idols and give me the strength to believe that I too can do what they do, leave a feminist legacy, and make an impact in women’s lives.

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